Comments on: In a Shocking Development, Avvo Gets Sued http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/ any technology distinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:56:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Link Roundup for June 26, 2007 « TechFold http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79430 Link Roundup for June 26, 2007 « TechFold Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:02:46 +0000 http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79430 [...] Rob Hyndman: Lawyer ranking service Avvo gets sued — by lawyers. [...] [...] Rob Hyndman: Lawyer ranking service Avvo gets sued — by lawyers. [...]

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By: glenn mack http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79375 glenn mack Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:34:43 +0000 http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79375 "getting what they deserve" sounds ominous as well as revelatory as does the suggestion regarding transparency. One suspects that your latest puffing for Avvo could just as easily have had the parties reversed - that two sides of every argument again. A. Does the legal profession need more transparency? Absolutely. B. Do consumers need a better way to inform themselves when choosing a lawyer? Absolutely Unfortunately Avvo's self serving submission that they address A & B does not mean, however, that Avvo's solution is either sound or useful. One could posit that having the imprimatur of A & B that it is beneficial to consumers when the reverse could just as easily be the case. Having seen how ineffective and downright unreliable the feedback system on eBay one wonders how, when the stakes are much higher than a pair of ill-fitting blue jeans, Avvo's system of client input will be monitored. I have absolutely no love for the legal profession. But, I can savor the irony in that the hubris of one of its own - Britton - may engender warm feelings for one of the least likeable groups. “getting what they deserve” sounds ominous as well as revelatory as does the suggestion regarding transparency. One suspects that your latest puffing for Avvo could just as easily have had the parties reversed - that two sides of every argument again.

A. Does the legal profession need more transparency? Absolutely.

B. Do consumers need a better way to inform themselves when choosing a lawyer? Absolutely

Unfortunately Avvo’s self serving submission that they address A & B does not mean, however, that Avvo’s solution is either sound or useful. One could posit that having the imprimatur of A & B that it is beneficial to consumers when the reverse could just as easily be the case. Having seen how ineffective and downright unreliable the feedback system on eBay one wonders how, when the stakes are much higher than a pair of ill-fitting blue jeans, Avvo’s system of client input will be monitored.

I have absolutely no love for the legal profession. But, I can savor the irony in that the hubris of one of its own - Britton - may engender warm feelings for one of the least likeable groups.

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By: Lawyers don’t like us - your opinion matters” « practice management blog http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79371 Lawyers don’t like us - your opinion matters” « practice management blog Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:08:42 +0000 http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79371 [...] are a few, limited mine you, that basically looked at AVVO the way this blog does  Rob Hyndman  ” For my part I think Avvo is a sensational idea (so far) flawlessly executed, and I hope [...] [...] are a few, limited mine you, that basically looked at AVVO the way this blog does  Rob Hyndman  ” For my part I think Avvo is a sensational idea (so far) flawlessly executed, and I hope [...]

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By: Rob Hyndman http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79324 Rob Hyndman Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:35:20 +0000 http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79324 Thanks for the comment, R. Mullen - I appreciate the time you took to write it. I frankly don't think it's much of a news alert, though, to most people that lawyers by occupation take both sides. And while that's certainly part of the reason people hold such ill will towards lawyers, I think at least an equal measure comes from getting poor service at excessive rates. That's the only story I ever hear from the people who tell me about their complaints with other lawyers, anyway. I personally haven't heard criticism about the profession's mercenary nature since law school. And I will also say that will I sympathize with your comment about empathy ('some of my best friends' are lawyers, after all), it's a profession that IMO has been coddled and sheltered from the real world for far too long, and is pretty far down on my list of groups who get my sympathy. And finally, I don't think society is being hypocritical at all. Lawyers are getting what they deserve - every group / profession / occupation that's been put under pressure by technology has gotten what it 'deserved'. The profession could have avoided some of this - or at least retarded its advance - if it had been more transparent and made it easier for consumers to understand and compare the value of legal services. But (like pretty much everyone else - real estate agents being a great current example) the profession has resisted that at every turn, IMO. Services like Avvo are the necessary and just result, IMO. For many lawyers, fear is the correct attitude to hold, I think. Thanks for the comment, R. Mullen - I appreciate the time you took to write it. I frankly don’t think it’s much of a news alert, though, to most people that lawyers by occupation take both sides. And while that’s certainly part of the reason people hold such ill will towards lawyers, I think at least an equal measure comes from getting poor service at excessive rates. That’s the only story I ever hear from the people who tell me about their complaints with other lawyers, anyway. I personally haven’t heard criticism about the profession’s mercenary nature since law school.

And I will also say that will I sympathize with your comment about empathy (’some of my best friends’ are lawyers, after all), it’s a profession that IMO has been coddled and sheltered from the real world for far too long, and is pretty far down on my list of groups who get my sympathy.

And finally, I don’t think society is being hypocritical at all. Lawyers are getting what they deserve - every group / profession / occupation that’s been put under pressure by technology has gotten what it ‘deserved’. The profession could have avoided some of this - or at least retarded its advance - if it had been more transparent and made it easier for consumers to understand and compare the value of legal services. But (like pretty much everyone else - real estate agents being a great current example) the profession has resisted that at every turn, IMO. Services like Avvo are the necessary and just result, IMO. For many lawyers, fear is the correct attitude to hold, I think.

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By: Litigation Gamesmanship: Avvo v. Berman | Illegal Patterns http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79321 Litigation Gamesmanship: Avvo v. Berman | Illegal Patterns Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:25:33 +0000 http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79321 [...] left this comment on Rob Hyndman’s blog…thought I’d repeat it, just in case, well, you know, he doesn’t approve [...] [...] left this comment on Rob Hyndman’s blog…thought I’d repeat it, just in case, well, you know, he doesn’t approve [...]

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By: R. Mullen http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79320 R. Mullen Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:14:25 +0000 http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79320 There's a lot of good in what Avvo is doing, but the execution and the hype surrounding it cuts both ways. Do I suspect the lawsuit was just waiting in the wings? Yup. In fact, I wonder whether there is a bit of hangover from Britton/Berman's Expedia relationship (I hope I'm barking up the wrong tree here!), but certainly anyone with sense would know the lawsuit is coming. Avvo as well as the outraged attorneys. As you wrote, "Best PR money can buy." Yet, I bow to Berman's experience and skill that allowed him to draft a sufficiently muddy, yet strangely enticing, complaint within the space of a few days. He probably did it in one sitting (because Avvo says he's good like that), with the rest of the time was spent getting it typed up. :o)) It gets the point across, don't you think, this "shining the light in dark places" thing, although it's kinda roll-the-eyes melodramatic. "Here there be monsters"...only makes me wonder who is playing Captain Jack Sparrow. On a serious note, however, this controversy demonstrates a terrific lack of empathy for lawyers as *people*, as if lawyers are magically transformed into demons because they undertake the task of representing every side of an argument. News alert: that's called democracy. The divorce lawyer on the other side would do the same *for* you. The prosecutor would do the same *to* you. It kinda falls apart when lawyers become legislators, but then how does one get to be a legislator without campaign promises? How many of *those* are kept?? At least when you buy yourself a lawyer, you buy a lawyer for yourself. Lawyers are sharks...lawyers are greedy...blah, blah, blah. What lawyers need are for the marketers and the business people to step up to their own elevated sense of honor and trustworthiness. I've seen at least one survey in which marketers rate just as poorly,--and for good reason. So, this whole demonizing the profession for representing the wishes, hopes and aspirations of the same people who then turn about and stab them in the back is so utterly incredible that as a lawyer, I can't take it that seriously. What I DO take incredibly seriously is the idea that lawyers are somehow transformed into fair game by people who thrill to the image of blood gushing from our professional pores. I dare say that there isn't another high paying "profession" out there that doesn't suffer from the same issues. Been to the doctor's lately? Had to get your car fixed lately? Been to a government office...*lately*? Had a police officer stop you for a bogus ticket...**lately**?? Professional civility is something everyone needs, from McDonalds to the Supreme Court (yeah, I said it!). There's no question but that lawyers need to have better "user interface" skills,--but they are not alone. And, there is a thin line between what you might interpret as "fear" and the testosterone (laced with a healthy dose of estrogen) that normally appears when a hypocritical society attacks. Client-Lawyer Smackdown. Now THAT would be a great TV show! :o)) There’s a lot of good in what Avvo is doing, but the execution and the hype surrounding it cuts both ways.

Do I suspect the lawsuit was just waiting in the wings? Yup. In fact, I wonder whether there is a bit of hangover from Britton/Berman’s Expedia relationship (I hope I’m barking up the wrong tree here!), but certainly anyone with sense would know the lawsuit is coming. Avvo as well as the outraged attorneys. As you wrote, “Best PR money can buy.”

Yet, I bow to Berman’s experience and skill that allowed him to draft a sufficiently muddy, yet strangely enticing, complaint within the space of a few days. He probably did it in one sitting (because Avvo says he’s good like that), with the rest of the time was spent getting it typed up. :o))

It gets the point across, don’t you think, this “shining the light in dark places” thing, although it’s kinda roll-the-eyes melodramatic. “Here there be monsters”…only makes me wonder who is playing Captain Jack Sparrow.

On a serious note, however, this controversy demonstrates a terrific lack of empathy for lawyers as *people*, as if lawyers are magically transformed into demons because they undertake the task of representing every side of an argument.

News alert: that’s called democracy. The divorce lawyer on the other side would do the same *for* you. The prosecutor would do the same *to* you. It kinda falls apart when lawyers become legislators, but then how does one get to be a legislator without campaign promises? How many of *those* are kept?? At least when you buy yourself a lawyer, you buy a lawyer for yourself.

Lawyers are sharks…lawyers are greedy…blah, blah, blah. What lawyers need are for the marketers and the business people to step up to their own elevated sense of honor and trustworthiness. I’ve seen at least one survey in which marketers rate just as poorly,–and for good reason.

So, this whole demonizing the profession for representing the wishes, hopes and aspirations of the same people who then turn about and stab them in the back is so utterly incredible that as a lawyer, I can’t take it that seriously.

What I DO take incredibly seriously is the idea that lawyers are somehow transformed into fair game by people who thrill to the image of blood gushing from our professional pores. I dare say that there isn’t another high paying “profession” out there that doesn’t suffer from the same issues. Been to the doctor’s lately? Had to get your car fixed lately? Been to a government office…*lately*? Had a police officer stop you for a bogus ticket…**lately**??

Professional civility is something everyone needs, from McDonalds to the Supreme Court (yeah, I said it!). There’s no question but that lawyers need to have better “user interface” skills,–but they are not alone.

And, there is a thin line between what you might interpret as “fear” and the testosterone (laced with a healthy dose of estrogen) that normally appears when a hypocritical society attacks. Client-Lawyer Smackdown. Now THAT would be a great TV show!

:o))

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By: I wonder how this will affect their ranking…. « mattroberts.com http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79305 I wonder how this will affect their ranking…. « mattroberts.com Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:37:54 +0000 http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/06/15/in-a-shocking-development-avvo-gets-sued/#comment-79305 [...] Rob Hyndmans site for a bunch of links that show how the lawyers are definitely not liking this [...] [...] Rob Hyndmans site for a bunch of links that show how the lawyers are definitely not liking this [...]

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