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	<title>Comments on: Cut and Run - Canada in Afghanistan</title>
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	<link>http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Continuing Bewildering Bewilderment by the Media on Afghanistan &#124; robhyndman.com</title>
		<link>http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-85365</link>
		<dc:creator>Continuing Bewildering Bewilderment by the Media on Afghanistan &#124; robhyndman.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-85365</guid>
		<description>[...] spectacle of the mainstream media only dimly suspecting that we are not being fully informed about what is happening in Afghanistan.     Related [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] spectacle of the mainstream media only dimly suspecting that we are not being fully informed about what is happening in Afghanistan.     Related [...]</p>
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		<title>By: robhyndman.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on YouTube User-Generated Content</title>
		<link>http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18248</link>
		<dc:creator>robhyndman.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on YouTube User-Generated Content</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 01:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18248</guid>
		<description>[...] One of the obvious answers to my complaint of earlier this week about the disappointing absence of context to the Canadian media&#8217;s reporting of the war in Afghanistan is that the web is gradually allowing citizen reporting to displace, or at least augment, the traditional role of journalists. But I certainly didn&#8217;t have in mind the development reported by the NYT today - YouTube is apparently hosting videos showing insurgent attacks against American troops in Iraq:  Many of the videos, showing sniper attacks against Americans and roadside bombs exploding under American military vehicles, have been posted not by insurgents or their official supporters but apparently by Internet users in the United States and other countries, who have passed along videos found elsewhere. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] One of the obvious answers to my complaint of earlier this week about the disappointing absence of context to the Canadian media&#8217;s reporting of the war in Afghanistan is that the web is gradually allowing citizen reporting to displace, or at least augment, the traditional role of journalists. But I certainly didn&#8217;t have in mind the development reported by the NYT today - YouTube is apparently hosting videos showing insurgent attacks against American troops in Iraq:  Many of the videos, showing sniper attacks against Americans and roadside bombs exploding under American military vehicles, have been posted not by insurgents or their official supporters but apparently by Internet users in the United States and other countries, who have passed along videos found elsewhere. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vera Bass</title>
		<link>http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18229</link>
		<dc:creator>Vera Bass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 14:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18229</guid>
		<description>I believe you are right on about the social consequences being the primary hindrance to people speaking out. How sad is that? Living in a society that supposedly holds up free speech as an inalienable right, we are caught in a web of growing social taboos on stating one's opinion. Without the freedom to state our opinions on important issues, and debate, we're abdicating our involvement in and responsibility for the state of our nations. It's an alarming state of affairs to me.

I don't see the media as neutral in how we arrived here, either. The American phenomenon of voices in the media spouting vitriolic rhetoric, left at right and vice versa, has gone a long way to polarizing our countries' societies. Compare news shows covering politics in the 50s and 60s to current ones and the differences are notable. The whole area of political debate is deteriorating to a schoolyard brawl. If I confess to voting right the response I can anticipate is "oh, yuck, you must be a religious fundamentalist who wants to kill babies and gays." and if I'm voting left then, "you're an amoral, manipulative, selfish socialist who wants to fatten the public purse to get votes from lazy bums on welfare at the expense of my hard earned home equity.". All of which appears totally unrelated to what our leaders are actually *doing*. Almost the only role left to the media, as a result of their own staking of these positions, is rooting out the crooks and liars, which (surprise) are to be found on both sides.

How did it get this bad and why? I do believe that the current Warmonger vs Coward screaming match has been a turning point in this. Theoretically, anyone will be for stopping terrorism and also against unnecessary war and senseless torture. I can't help imagining gleefully gloating terrorists watching all this. The whole concept of terrorism as a tactic is to strike unexpectedly in order to create confusion and, ideally, the paralysis of fear. There is no effective response to that which can be fully 'reported' by CNN, BBC, and CBC, although the Brits seem to be doing a better job of all this on their side of the pond than we are here. Our complete loss of faith in our leaders especially, which I blame to some extent on the media, has paralyzed us more than even terrorism has. That's our Achilles heel IMO. What I can do personally is privately seek out rational sounding voices in the wilderness and look for ways to support them.

Geez, I didn't mean to turn this into an essay ...can you tell I'm frustrated by the general absence of real conversation about this?

Vera</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe you are right on about the social consequences being the primary hindrance to people speaking out. How sad is that? Living in a society that supposedly holds up free speech as an inalienable right, we are caught in a web of growing social taboos on stating one&#8217;s opinion. Without the freedom to state our opinions on important issues, and debate, we&#8217;re abdicating our involvement in and responsibility for the state of our nations. It&#8217;s an alarming state of affairs to me.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see the media as neutral in how we arrived here, either. The American phenomenon of voices in the media spouting vitriolic rhetoric, left at right and vice versa, has gone a long way to polarizing our countries&#8217; societies. Compare news shows covering politics in the 50s and 60s to current ones and the differences are notable. The whole area of political debate is deteriorating to a schoolyard brawl. If I confess to voting right the response I can anticipate is &#8220;oh, yuck, you must be a religious fundamentalist who wants to kill babies and gays.&#8221; and if I&#8217;m voting left then, &#8220;you&#8217;re an amoral, manipulative, selfish socialist who wants to fatten the public purse to get votes from lazy bums on welfare at the expense of my hard earned home equity.&#8221;. All of which appears totally unrelated to what our leaders are actually *doing*. Almost the only role left to the media, as a result of their own staking of these positions, is rooting out the crooks and liars, which (surprise) are to be found on both sides.</p>
<p>How did it get this bad and why? I do believe that the current Warmonger vs Coward screaming match has been a turning point in this. Theoretically, anyone will be for stopping terrorism and also against unnecessary war and senseless torture. I can&#8217;t help imagining gleefully gloating terrorists watching all this. The whole concept of terrorism as a tactic is to strike unexpectedly in order to create confusion and, ideally, the paralysis of fear. There is no effective response to that which can be fully &#8216;reported&#8217; by CNN, BBC, and CBC, although the Brits seem to be doing a better job of all this on their side of the pond than we are here. Our complete loss of faith in our leaders especially, which I blame to some extent on the media, has paralyzed us more than even terrorism has. That&#8217;s our Achilles heel IMO. What I can do personally is privately seek out rational sounding voices in the wilderness and look for ways to support them.</p>
<p>Geez, I didn&#8217;t mean to turn this into an essay &#8230;can you tell I&#8217;m frustrated by the general absence of real conversation about this?</p>
<p>Vera</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Hyndman</title>
		<link>http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18220</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Hyndman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18220</guid>
		<description>I suspect it's the same behaviour we've seen in the U.S. - a deep-seated and well-founded fear of speaking out; for fear of being socially ostracized; for fear of being thought of as being unpatriotic; and so on.  After all, it has taken years for Americans concerned about their war to find the nerve to speak publicly.  It didn't really begin to happen until it became evident that the war was sold on fasehoods and was being prosecuted incompetently.  Many Americans didn't find their nerve until all of this became &lt;em&gt;abundantly&lt;/em&gt; clear. 

It's worth more to people to not stand out for their 'independent thinking' than it is to exercise their conscience or attempt to influence change (in part, no doubt, because they rightly believe that there is little chance of their voice having any effect).

So too in Canada, though even more gradually, I suspect.  The press performs an important social function in mediating changing public attitudes - roughly, letting people know when it's OK to criticize.  And if it's AWOL, hiding under the furniture, or on pogey because of cutbacks by the mediaco's, this will take longer.

But I do believe it will eventually happen, because I believe that the situation in Afghanistan will inevitably worsen dramatically, unless (i) the war is prosecuted skilfully as a true counter-insurgency, (ii) Pakistan stops aiding the enemy and (iii) there are many, many more boots on the ground.  Which, of course, means it will worsen dramatically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect it&#8217;s the same behaviour we&#8217;ve seen in the U.S. - a deep-seated and well-founded fear of speaking out; for fear of being socially ostracized; for fear of being thought of as being unpatriotic; and so on.  After all, it has taken years for Americans concerned about their war to find the nerve to speak publicly.  It didn&#8217;t really begin to happen until it became evident that the war was sold on fasehoods and was being prosecuted incompetently.  Many Americans didn&#8217;t find their nerve until all of this became <em>abundantly</em> clear. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth more to people to not stand out for their &#8216;independent thinking&#8217; than it is to exercise their conscience or attempt to influence change (in part, no doubt, because they rightly believe that there is little chance of their voice having any effect).</p>
<p>So too in Canada, though even more gradually, I suspect.  The press performs an important social function in mediating changing public attitudes - roughly, letting people know when it&#8217;s OK to criticize.  And if it&#8217;s AWOL, hiding under the furniture, or on pogey because of cutbacks by the mediaco&#8217;s, this will take longer.</p>
<p>But I do believe it will eventually happen, because I believe that the situation in Afghanistan will inevitably worsen dramatically, unless (i) the war is prosecuted skilfully as a true counter-insurgency, (ii) Pakistan stops aiding the enemy and (iii) there are many, many more boots on the ground.  Which, of course, means it will worsen dramatically.</p>
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		<title>By: Vera Bass</title>
		<link>http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18202</link>
		<dc:creator>Vera Bass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 02:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/10/07/cut-and-run-canada-in-afghanistan/#comment-18202</guid>
		<description>I agree with you 100% Rob. It feels as though Canadians have taken a vow of silence on the subject and the media is taking the cue. After the terrorist arrests in Mississauga, CFRB made it their prime time talk topic (I happened to be in a car with my Mom on the way to a medical appointment and that's what she listens to). Even their lamest topics get *some* comments on that show. In this case, for the first and only time, not ONE SINGLE PERSON CALLED in through the entire hour. I found that pretty astounding.

Similarly, every conversation I've initiated with Canadian friends on either the war or terrorism has been met with discomfort sometimes extreme enough to display as actual physical squirming. Pursuing the point sometimes elicited unthought out, emotional, and senseless remarks ...this from highly educated, intelligent and sophisticated individuals.

I do find this all thoroughly bizarre. It doesn't seem to be an issue of whether you are on the left or right, but more to be somehow hitting the Canadian indentity insecurity button? which I just can't make any sense of. Why don't we want to know what is going on?

Vera</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you 100% Rob. It feels as though Canadians have taken a vow of silence on the subject and the media is taking the cue. After the terrorist arrests in Mississauga, CFRB made it their prime time talk topic (I happened to be in a car with my Mom on the way to a medical appointment and that&#8217;s what she listens to). Even their lamest topics get *some* comments on that show. In this case, for the first and only time, not ONE SINGLE PERSON CALLED in through the entire hour. I found that pretty astounding.</p>
<p>Similarly, every conversation I&#8217;ve initiated with Canadian friends on either the war or terrorism has been met with discomfort sometimes extreme enough to display as actual physical squirming. Pursuing the point sometimes elicited unthought out, emotional, and senseless remarks &#8230;this from highly educated, intelligent and sophisticated individuals.</p>
<p>I do find this all thoroughly bizarre. It doesn&#8217;t seem to be an issue of whether you are on the left or right, but more to be somehow hitting the Canadian indentity insecurity button? which I just can&#8217;t make any sense of. Why don&#8217;t we want to know what is going on?</p>
<p>Vera</p>
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